MovieKlub is new service with an interesting spin on the DVD-by-mail business. The DVDs they ship to only allow for 3 plays, and you never have to return the movie -- they've solved the disposable DVD recycling problem:
There is a sticky-backed pre-addressed mailing label inside the sleeve/packaging. When you're done watching the movie and want to recycle the disc, you simply affix the label to the outside of the mailer and ship it out whenever. It goes back to our recycling center, where we guarantee 100% de-manufacturing.
The monthly service costs $24.95 and guarantees two new movie releases weekly at or immediately following their release date.
The service will launch this summer in select areas. If you sign up now you'll get your first round of movies for free.
That's an interesting concept. But do you just get the movie or like the whole DVD with extras and everything? Cause I live for dvd extras.
Posted by: Ama | February 24, 2006 at 10:42 AM
There's no "throttling," because it's not an "unlimited" rental service. It's just barely a rental service at all. It's a hybrid purchase/rental service.
However, it's a feasible alternative to VOD for new releases.
Posted by: Becky | February 24, 2006 at 10:51 AM
Any word on the exact technology used to make the DVD unplayable? Is it the layer that turns opaque?
Posted by: Shrike | February 24, 2006 at 10:59 AM
It's not like Flexplay. The technology for this is embedded in the disc. The service is really designed around people who want to gain acess to new releases without any action. Not ideal for true film buffs, but nice for those who don't have the time to be running to the video store or maintaining a queue.
Posted by: valhallas | February 24, 2006 at 11:06 AM
Do they decide what new releases to send you? How useless is this service? Ridiculous.
Posted by: mikeden2k | February 24, 2006 at 11:10 AM
I think you may have been duped. This service doesn't really exude legitimacy. May just be a way for someone to gather E-mail addresses.
Posted by: Rusty Ramrod | February 24, 2006 at 12:07 PM
I've been exchanging e-mails with a senior employee at the company about the service and I've requested a demo disc for review.
Here's the annnouncement on Yahoo! News:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20060223/bs_prweb/prweb349642_1
- Mike
Posted by: mikek | February 24, 2006 at 12:20 PM
I'll agree that the signup page does not encourage trust, but the company seems real enough:
http://www.consumablemedia.com/v2/about/
Poor audio, and too many hand gestures, but do watch the video on this page.
Seems like maybe they couldn't get anyone else to buy their tech, so just launched a service themselves to try to recoup their development money.
Posted by: shoobe01 | February 24, 2006 at 12:37 PM
Thanks for the link shoobe01.
I have to call bullship on Lief Larson (or whatever this joker's name is -- if their DVD technology is as good as their promo video recording, then you better stay away from these clowns). Anyway, they claim that copying a disc is not possible. If I can play it in my DVD-ROM drive, I can surely burn it. Anyway, if you look at the Executive Biographies, you'll see it's filled with a bunch of V.C. whores with disposable business degrees and no tech experience. Shoobe01 was right; they're just trying to get back their V.C. money that they dumped into some promising technology that nobody picked up. Which implies that their technology isn't all they're trying to make it out to be. From their site: "Consumable Media LLC accepts proposals for licensing and contract manufacturing of discs that employ our proprietary limited play technology. To request more information on licensing programs, please visit the contact section of this website." -- which translates to "Please, anyone, help a poor V.C. whore out. We were wrong to jump onto the disposable disc bandwagon when we saw Flexplay being offered. Now, both Flexplay and we are here holding our discs in our hand trying to get any sucker to buy into a dead technology."
Suckas!
Posted by: sykoboy | February 24, 2006 at 02:38 PM
Thanks for the links guys.
Further investigation shows there may actually be some real technology there but first look in not promising. It appears it is a "bleachable dye" that does the work.
So what is I want to review Haley Berry's bare rump in Monster’s Ball. From what I can tell once the laser hits any section 3 times, that's all she wrote. So if I skip back more than a couple times that portion of the disc then becomes unreadable. Not very user friendly.
In addition the dude on the video talks “making burning a copy impossible”. Now any reasonable person would *never* make that claim. Can anyone think of any copy protection that has not been broken (or at least side stepped). Not sure how they are claiming to accomplish that.
Lastly I keep seeing the TM after their BuyByeDVD term. A search shows no results for either a patent or a trademark with the US gov. for that term. Perhaps it is just a scare tactic, but I would suggest they get it truly trademarked ASAP if they wish to keep the term from getting stolen. Simply placing a TM after a term does *not* make it a trademark. Someone can come in at a later date and file for a trademark and you are SOL. Believe me, I know from experience. It happened to our 5 year old company name. We were able to recover the name, since we had been actively using it in commerce for 5 years, but only after many tens of thousands of dollars of attorney fees.
In the end it is a compelling idea maybe for direct sales, but I don’t see it ever coming close to matching a service like NF or BB.
Good luck to them.
Posted by: Rusty Ramrod | February 24, 2006 at 02:43 PM
The idea of receiving 2 movies a week with no obligation to return them and no waiting period to receive them appeals to me. The "3 plays and your out" concept does not bother me since I'm already in the habit of returning movies I've viewed in order to recieve more. So, my big question is what will this service cost me, and what all can I get? I'm reluctant to sign up for a pig in a poke.
Even if this company has not yet finalized the cost to the consumer, I'd like to know approximatly the number of available titles, and if I will be able to place them in a queue.
Posted by: E. Craig Crawford | February 24, 2006 at 03:42 PM
Oops ... I guess I should read the announcement more carefully. So, I can get at least 8 movies a month for $24.95, and all new releases. Does the movie industry give us that many new releases each month? More to the point, am I really interested in viewing all the new releases that are offered?
This does not sound like a good deal to me at first blush. Am I in the minority here? Even if the technology is superb, and I can view these movies 3 times before recycling the disk, I'm really not interested in a service that offers nothing but new releases.
Posted by: E. Craig Crawford | February 24, 2006 at 03:52 PM
Hey, it's Lief. Didn't think I'd be called on to defend myself. I'd expect some naysayers, but was hoping for a little constructive feedback as well. Anyway, here it goes. . .
1. I'd hope our sign-up page would encourage people to be trusting. We've put a privacy policy up and offered to send out a batch of free movies with no committment.
2. We've never tried to sell or market our technology and I've been very patient and intentional in the way we release the product. Our technology is NOT the product, the movie is. Our technology is simply the delivery vehicle.
3. Sorry about the poor audio/hand gestures of me at our website, but I am the technologist and do not profess to be a paid actor. The video is to put a face behind what we're doing and based on your feedback I'll likely remove the video next Monday. Thank you.
4. Whomever has called a "bullshit" on me better do a little more diligence. I'm a 30 year old futurist and technologist with a successful track record of entrepreneurship. I would argue that it takes at least some "tech experience" to implement a photo reactive dye in an optical disc. Our research and development team is made up of myself, Dr. JB Merry, Dr. M. Cunningham, and Dr. J. Owens. I think you'd find that we are competent technically. In addition, we currently have no VC backing. I've funded the entire endeavor personally or with friends & family. SWDA Ventures is with us from an advisory role. Skyoboy, I believe your mother did not hold you enough as a child. I'd be happy to talk with you on the phone any time to discuss features of our product. Can you please be open to a startup company with a novel concept, please?
5. Rusty, you are correct. There is a claim about not being able to copy the disc. At that point the reference is to the copy beyond expiration. Once expired the disc can not be copied. However, anyone as novel as yourself would surely find a way to rip copyrighted work. :) Just playing. For real though, our technology does dissuade the customer from stealing copies, but anyone with DVR is going to figure this out. We are limited in the up front copy protection beyond CSS.
6. Trademark has been used in commerce and we're fine with the "TM" vs. actually registering the mark with the USPTO at this time, but thanks for the suggestion. Once we actually get rolling that may come up in the budget.
7. We don't aspire to be NF or BB. We simply hope to be another option for people who could find an alternative service like ours useful. I appreciate Hacking Netflix covering the story and I appreciate all of you who have provided constructive and even negative feedback. At the heart of this business is the desire to find a convenient way for people to gain access to DVD movies on their release date. We're a very small and focused company with big aspirations (right now we only have 7 people). I invite any of you to email me at any time with questions. My email is lief@consumablemedia.com.
Posted by: ConsumableMedia | February 24, 2006 at 04:14 PM
Hey Lief:
In the beginning of you post you wrote:
"1. I'd hope our sign-up page would encourage people to be trusting. We've put a privacy policy up and offered to send out a batch of free movies with no committment."
I think it's DAMN funny that you want people to trust you...especally after reading your Privacy Policy.
Near the bottom of you main page at http://www.movieklub.com you state:
"Privacy Policy - Your contact information will not be shared with any third paty."
In your Privacy Policy you state, in part:
"D. Third Party Services
Third parties provide certain services available on MovieKlub.com on MovieKlub’s behalf. MovieKlub may provide information, including Personal Information, that collects on the Web to third-party service providers to help us deliver programs, products, information, and services. Service providers are also an important means by which MovieKlub maintains its Web site and mailing lists. MovieKlub will take reasonable steps to ensure that these third-party service providers are obligated to protect Personal Information on MovieKlub’s behalf."
WHICH IS IT? First you say you don't share personal information with any third party (you actually spelled it "paty", was this done on purpose?) and then you say you will share the information with any third party.
In another section of that same Privacy Policy it states:
"If you choose to provide us with your Personal Information on the Web, we may transfer that Information within MovieKlub or to MovieKlub's third-party service providers, across borders, and from your country or jurisdiction to other countries or jurisdictions around the world. However, please note that any services provided by MovieKlub are intended only for residents of the United States."
WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU HAVE A NEED TO TRANSFER OUR PERSONAL INFORMATION TO ANOTHER COUNTRY IF YOU ARE IN THE UNITED STATES AND YOU ONLY DO BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES?
Rest assured I have copied your so-called Privacy Policy and have forwarded it to various law-enforcement agencies.
If anyone here wants me to, I will post the entire Privacy Policy for all to read.
Posted by: Tester | February 24, 2006 at 05:09 PM
The reason why his Privacy Policy is a mish- mash is because he used a boilerplate Privacy Policy policy he cut & pasted from some other site without making sure that it reads correctly in the context of other portion of his site. These guys come across as amateurs -- big ideas, hired-out brainwork, and ad-hoc business plans. A great example of this (as someone alluded to before earlier) is their not filing a trademark application for their BuyByeDVD mark. It costs $325 to at least get your mark on file with the PTO. Lief, if you had consulted with your attorney, you would have been advised that pimping your product on the Internet is not necessarily sufficient to establish a national coverage scope with respect to common law usage rights attributed to your mark. And your common law rights mean jack-squat with respect to foreign rights where first-to-use rights trump use-based rights. I mean, we're talking $325 to definitively protect your rights. If you hold your product in such high esteem, the least you could do is make a concerted effort to protect the accompanying IP. Please tell me the law firm/lawyer that gave you your misguided advice so that I can 'recommend' them to their respective state bar to be brought up on incompetency charges. Did you file a provisional patent application on your technology or did you file a regular application? I'm hoping you filed a regular non-provisoinal application since the backlog for the 2100 and 3600 Art Unit Patent Examiners is about 4 years, so you're going to be delayed only so much more by filing a provisional application that won't be examined on its merits. Did you attempt you file a petition to make special to expedite the examination process? Did you preserve your foreign filing rights? When did you file your application, as it doesn't seem to be published yet (assuming you filed a non-provisional application more than 18 months ago). So I'm sure your attorney went over all this with you? If you can afford an attorney to go over ALL this with you, then there is no way you can tell me you're strapped for cash to not be able to file a $325 trademark application.
And yes, I am a patent attorney.
Posted by: sykoboy | February 24, 2006 at 05:43 PM
correction: I meant to say first-to-file trumps first-to-use rights abroad.
Posted by: sykoboy | February 24, 2006 at 05:45 PM
Hey Lief:
I'm not done yet.
Your response to Skyoboy;
"Skyoboy, I believe your mother did not hold you enough as a child. I'd be happy to talk with you on the phone any time to discuss features of our product."
Seems you are a bit thin-skinned. Is this how you talk to a possible customer? What would you say to a customer who has a problem, would you tell them to "Go to Hell"?
It seems to me that if you treat a potential customer with such disdain before you have their money, how in the world are you going to treat them after you get it??
You also suggested Skyoboy call you. Why didn't you ask everyone here to call? I sense a bit of a threat or attempted intimidation or even a possible attempt at a con job.
In you post you stated:
"I'm a 30 year old futurist and technologist with a successful track record of entrepreneurship."
How about letting us know what you have been successful in. This way we can try to see if you are just bullsh***ing us.
Btw...if you feel my postings are the result of something to do with my mother, father or anyone else why don't we discuss it in person? If you want to discuss ANYTHING with me LET'S DO IT!! Is this a threat? No it isn't. Threats are against the law, and unlike some people I don't intend to break the law!
Posted by: Tester | February 24, 2006 at 05:45 PM
Tester:
The reason he's antagonistic is because he's a cocky kid. If he had mad business skills he would be successful in getting venture capital for his little endeavor. I know these types of guys. I see them every day in my practice. He asks his affluent parents for the money so that he can start up some business (He admitted to scrounging up money from family/friends outside of VC circles). Then, when it fails, he just closes up shop, goes back to his parents for more money, and buys into the next technology and tries to run with that. The cycle continues. Lief, don't take this as an insult, but I can see your circumstances. However, I agree with Tester in that your response was totally unprofessional.
I do not come on this board and represent myself as speaking on behalf of my firm/business. Half the stuff I say on here is said to get a rise out of people for the benefit of discussion, make people chuckle (i.e., childing insults like calling you 'VC whores') and to yank their chains. Notice how bland it all of a sudden became once Mike turned on registration (I applaud him for that since some of the stuff posted here was just plain offensive, which caused me to stop reading any threads once the swearing insults started).
You on the other hand, need to maintain that professional image and keep that in mind prior to posting. You are representing your company and product. Anyway, I'm done with this topic. I wish you good luck with your product, but as an engineer/patent attorney, I do see flaws with your product and IP philosophy. Maybe you'll do better in your next venture.
Can I now return to my out-of-character punk-attitude that I normally display on board?
Posted by: sykoboy | February 24, 2006 at 06:13 PM
To Sykoboy:
I am sorry for refering to you as Skyoboy. I used the name that Lief referred to in his post. I should have checked it for myself.
Posted by: Tester | February 24, 2006 at 06:13 PM
Interesting, but I'm not provoked and am not looking to provocate. Just want to introduce my product. Thanks for the legal advice, but I feel our law firm Fredrikson & Byron provides ample legal services (www.fredlaw.com). I'd also like to thank you for the warm reception. I'm sure a simple google search would provide you plenty on my background.
P.S. Is it just me or is tester and sykoboy one in the same?
Posted by: ConsumableMedia | February 24, 2006 at 06:16 PM
"Can I now return to my out-of-character punk-attitude that I normally display on board?"
I don't mind. ;)
I may have some very interesting information tomorrow. Please check back.
Posted by: Tester | February 24, 2006 at 06:21 PM
"P.S. Is it just me or is tester and sykoboy one in the same?"
Looks like you are wrong again!
Posted by: Tester | February 24, 2006 at 06:24 PM
" I'm sure a simple google search would provide you plenty on my background."
Why make us search for it? Why not provide it yourself?
Look, you may be legit, I don't know for sure, but it damn well doesn't seem like it. I would think if you were legit you would be willing to provide the information instead of telling us to search for it. Telling me basically to find it on my own is antagonistic and further lowers your professional image.
Posted by: Tester | February 24, 2006 at 06:30 PM
I gotta agree with tester,this whole thing looks and sounds like a rip off. I don't trust this guy one bit.
Posted by: thecrow | February 24, 2006 at 07:55 PM
Forget all the smoke and mirrors. $25 a month for 8 self-destructing new release DVDs is a rip off, any way you cut it. You could get at least twice as much with Netflix or Blockbuster for the same money - or less. Why do business with dubious punks like Lief? His shills were spamming this site from the instant Mike K. turned off registration. They are offering product that is ecologically unattractive and gives less value than the competition. They are spamming this site (and others) to get their message out. In short, they deserve to fail. Boycott the bastards.
Posted by: NetflixShill | February 24, 2006 at 10:01 PM
Also, do you have to pay extra to send the discs in for recycling? And do you even get to pick what you want or do they just send what they think you like? Tester and SykoBoy are right not to trust the guys. They sound like a real fly-by-night operation. What kind fo ship times do you think they will give? How much do you want to bet they have one distro center for the entire USA? Your chances of getting a movie on its release date or even the day after? Probably slim to none. And for this privilege, they want 50% more than NF and BB's cheapest plan??? Ha!
Posted by: NetflixShill | February 24, 2006 at 10:17 PM
Mike, let us know how that demo disk is.
Posted by: gir | February 24, 2006 at 10:23 PM
Yesterday I said "I may have some very interesting information tomorrow. Please check back."
Here is some of that information.
If you look at the bottom of the movieklub.com page you will find that is the so-called Trademark of Consumable Media LLC.
Go to;
http://www.consumablemedia.com/v2/about/
and click on "CONTACT" you will find that shows they are located at 1500 Jackson Street NE Minneapolis, MN 55413 Suite 294. You will also see that they say they are "Located in the Northrup King Building".
If you go to;
http://www.northrupkingbuilding.com/directory.html
you will see a listing of at least some the tenants there. Follow the alphabitized name column down to a company called MINBIN and you will see that it is claiming to be in the same suite 294. In fact MINBIN, along with Valhalla Worldwide LLC are the only companies listed to be in suite 294.
Next use the link:
http://www.minbin.com/
Once on the MINBIN site go to the bottom of the page and then click on "Contact Us". The next page you go to shows that MINBIN is supposedly part of the Valhalla Worldwide LLC at the same address and suite number.
If you take another look at the link to consumablemedia.com you will notice that you are being taken to "v2" which I believe stands for version 2 of the web site. If you attempt to simply go to consumablemedia.com you will reach a page that is blank except for 2 words at the top of the screen. These 2 words are "Coming Soon"
I found a Google cached page for Consumable Media at:
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:4pu_AH8mjMkJ:consumablemedia.com/contact++site:consumablemedia.com+%27ConsumableMedia.com%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2
On that page you will see that they are also part of Valhalla Worldwide LLC and also have, or had another so-called company called "LYRO".
Please pay attention to the different telephone numbers you will find for all of these different companies. I did a reverse directory lookup for them and was not able to find any of them listed. Are these numbers unlisted, going to cell phones, going to a VoIP phone or to WHAT? Do you really want to trust a company that doesn't publish their phone number or, if using VoIP, that you really don't know where the heck they are?
All of these different companies and telephone numbers all operated by, according to Lief, 7 people. Do they have one company and telephone for each person?
Nothing I have found out (and there is more) and posted here means the company is going to steal your money. It does not mean they are not legit. Many LARGE companies have smaller divisions within them. The difference is those companies are large. I know of no companies that have nearly as many divisions as they have employees, or partners.
My feelings on their disposible DVD's are that they are not much different then the original DIVX DVD that came out years ago that had limited plays unless you "re-newed" them. Nor are they much different than the DVD's that supposedly had a 48 hour life after comong out of the wrapper and being exposed to the air. The $4.00 you will be spending for each one could get you the same movie at your local rental store and you have the ability to watch that DVD as many times as you want, including stopping and replaying. The monthly fee, if used to pay for a Blockbuster or Netflix account would get you more DVD's then you would get with MovieKlub even if if you add throttling to the mix (for both of them). And, you would also be able to watch those DVD's as many times as you wanted.
Something else to consider. According to their press release, which can be found here;
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/2/prweb349642.htm
"The BuyByeDVD™ looks and functions nearly the same as any ordinary DVD, but only allows up to three plays."
That means you might get only 1 or 2 plays.
Sykoboy...would you mind checking to see if any of their trademarks are legit? For that matter are they actually all LLC's?
Posted by: Tester | February 25, 2006 at 09:10 AM
Guys, I think you can find some links and background stuff on me on Wikipedia, if that helps.
"Forget all the smoke and mirrors. $25 a month for 8 self-destructing new release DVDs is a rip off, any way you cut it."
As you may know from long waits in queue, many people have an interest in viewing new release around their release date. The value to this service is that we can deliver titles close to this date.
"You could get at least twice as much with Netflix or Blockbuster for the same money - or less."
We don't discredit the services offered by NF or BB. Both great companies, but we feel we have our own place in the mix.
"Why do business with dubious punks like Lief?"
I don't think that's fair. I'm here to introduce the product and Hacking Netflix most definately is the place where I'd like to have constructive conversation about our product.
"His shills were spamming this site from the instant Mike K. turned off registration."
I don't have any "shrills" and I'm most definately not engaged in spamming. I think even Mike K. would testify to that.
"They are offering product that is ecologically unattractive and gives less value than the competition. They are spamming this site (and others) to get their message out."
Our product is no less ecologically attractive than the model of burning gas in your car everytime you want to return a movie to the rental store. We're very concerned with our environmental footprint and we have contiously planned for this.
"Also, do you have to pay extra to send the discs in for recycling?"
The costs associated with this, which are worked into the COGS, are insignificant. There is less plastic material seperated than a 20oz plastic soda bottle.
"And do you even get to pick what you want or do they just send what they think you like?"
Great question. We need to start somewhere and our intention is to carry 2-3 titles per week in the beginning of the service, and gradually expand the offering of new titles to the point where you can control the titles you would receive each week.
"Tester and SykoBoy are right not to trust the guys. They sound like a real fly-by-night operation."
If three years of work in a lab qualifies as fly-by-night, than yes. And yep, we're definately small business.
"What kind fo ship times do you think they will give? How much do you want to bet they have one distro center for the entire USA? Your chances of getting a movie on its release date or even the day after?"
We intend to have the new release titles in the hands of our customers (95%) by Friday each week.
Keep the questions coming guys. I realize the service will not be right for everyone, but both your positive and negative feedback is very helpful and I'm willing to stay involved in the conversation.
Posted by: ConsumableMedia | February 25, 2006 at 10:20 AM
Good research, tester... you and I should open up our own PI detective agency. haha
Here's a list of all their related companies:
http://www.valhallallc.com/divisions
There are 8 I believe with very descript names that connote the type of product being pimped under that entity. Notice how unrelated in business scope all these entities are. None of these company names have a trademark filing on record with the USPTO.
Valhalla Worldwide, LYRO, Consumable Media, MovieKlub, Gaming Technologistics, MINBIN, or Hydrogen Power Corporation.
If you look on their main page, at the bottom, they claim that they are asserting trademark rights over the stock photo of the "green apple in hand" pic. Why don't you ask your law firm what rights you really do have in that pic considering it was bought as a stock photo.
I can't believe I'm doing the IP work for these jokers. But it's fun tearing them apart. At least they'll learn in their next venture. For example, look at:
http://www.valhallallc.com/what_s_new
Again, we have a stock photo, but look at that poor cut & paste job they did with the monitor displaying their company logo. Regardless of their Photoshop skills, I'm sure Lief made sure to ask his law firm about copyright law when it comes to making derivatives works of others' material. You did get permission from the author (or via license from the clearinghouse) to lay claim to the underlying work before Photoshopping that pic, right?
Anyway, let's move on. Nothing on that site indicates who's at the helm of Valhalla Worldwide LLC. However, I suspect that Lief (notice the Nordic connection between his name and the Valhalla brand of companies) is the brave Viking leader of all these companies. That means that Lief is responsible for forming all these entities.
If you go to the Minnesota Department of Commerce corporations site:
http://da.sos.state.mn.us/minnesota/home/dahome.asp
and search for Consumable Media LLC, you'll see that they didn't incorporate until November 2005. Then if you search on Valahalla Worldwide you'll see that they incorporated only in November 2004. And they're trying to tell us that they're the partent entity of 8 other companies, yet they themselves only incorporated in late 2004? I don't think so. Their home page states that they are into "developing product and business opportunities in high-growth markets from the ground up." Which is a fancy pants industry way of saying:
"We are just looking for the next big idea to come across our desk from outside sources since we have no in-house research. Then we will form a new company solely dedicated to hopefully marketing your invention."
Nothing on their site indicates what their other companies have brought to industry. I mean, with big names like "Hydrogen Power Corporation", you'd think we'd see some high-tech stuff pimped on their site. But there are no products for any of those respective companies.
I honestly do believe that these guys are in fact legit. Based upon what we have uncovered, I am also saying that they're very very new and don't seem to be too experienced in any one set market. Like I said before, I do wish them good luck and I do like their entrepreneurial spirit, even if their presentation of it needs some serious work.
Posted by: sykoboy | February 25, 2006 at 11:09 AM
Sykoboy:
"Good research, tester... you and I should open up our own PI detective agency. haha"
Thanks. You didn't do so bad yourself.
Whenever you want to start the agency let me know. Although according to what Lief believes, since we might be the same person, it would wind up being a sole-proprietorship rather then a partnership. [Big Grin]
I areee with your assertion that they are legit. I just don't think they have the business acumen needed, at least right now.
One of the reasons I say that is it seems that Lief is answering the simplistic questions and charges levied against him. I have yet to see him respond to some of the things you and I have said, the phone numbers not being listed and the stock photos just to name two.
Posted by: Tester | February 25, 2006 at 01:01 PM
I think the technology is interesting but I really don't see any place in the market for this idea. There are big movie fans who want a new release right away and they will either buy the movie outright or go rent it the day it comes out at their local video store. Why would they pay $24.95 to get a new release a few days after it comes out?
Then you have the folks who would like to see new releases but are not absolutely focused on seeing them right away. For them NF or BB is a cheaper and more convenient alternative.
I just fail to see who exactly this company is targeting. Then throw in the fact you can't watch the movie more than a few times and it is more expensive than the alternatives and it just does not make any sense to me. For this to work at all it has to be at least cheaper than the established online rental businesses as they are offering an inferior service.
Posted by: aussieguy | February 25, 2006 at 05:01 PM
As I said before this is something like the old DVIX discs where the disc could only be played a limited number of times before you had to "reload" it by calling some telephone number. The lack of customers was the downfall of DIVX and I don't think this will sell either.
Posted by: Tester | February 25, 2006 at 05:15 PM
Considering that there are an average of 4.3 weeks in a month, and if MovieKlub does deliver 2 flicks per week, the cost per movie would be approximately $2.90. That is likely reasonable to many movie buffs who won't have to spend a dollar's worth of gasoline to go and rent the latest releases, or have to worry about returning them on time. And, in view of the wait status problems and receiving/shipping delays that many of us NF customers are experiencing, it does seem that there may be a niche for a service such as this.
Posted by: E. Craig Crawford | February 26, 2006 at 09:56 AM
..."it does seem that there may be a niche for a service such as this."
Let's say for the moment you are right in your posted assumptions. DVIX offered the same low price and no need to return it. The advantage of DVIX over MovieKlub is that the disc could be re-activated if you wanted to watch the movie again or even permanently activated if you so desired. The DVIX disc was not pre-destined for the garbage. With the MovieKlub method once the disc is done, it is done for good. If you want to see the movie again you must, at that time, go to the store to either rent or buy it. You have now used the gasoline you alluded to not being needed and you also have added to our garbage problem. Please don't mention the recycling of the disc. Studies have shown that only a small percentage of people recycle and even within that percentage many of them don't recycle as much as thy could.
With that in mind, knowing that the public hated DVIX so much that it fell flat on its face, why do you think there would be enough people to support something that is worse than DVIX was?
Posted by: Tester | February 26, 2006 at 01:15 PM
DIVX was much worse:
- more expensive than rentals at the time
- required a DIVX capable player
- required a phone line connection (raising privacy concerns)
- activation model required long term confidence in the viability of the technology
DIVX was eminently hate-able. As far as I can tell, this doesn't suffer from any of those issues. It's effectively on-line rental with no long waits and no returns (unless you want to, and at your liesure).
Posted by: gir | February 26, 2006 at 02:55 PM
I'm in agreement with you, DIVX was hated. I already stated that. But beyond the reasons you listed you didn't mention the biggest reason to dislike it. It was a limited-use DVD, just as the MovieKlub DVD is. I really don't think too many people will accept that, especally since they are saying in their press release that you may not even get to play the movie 3 times as stated.
Posted by: Tester | February 26, 2006 at 07:10 PM
While this and DIVX are fundamentally similar (you pay to watch), I think they're subjectively very different.
DIVX wasn't really limited use - it was pay-per-view, and it was offered more as an alternative to DVD purchase than as a rental (probably because it was more expensive than rental).
This is limited use, but it's marketed as rental, so that's okay (as long as issues like rewind and premature menu wear-out are avoided).
I know it's an irrational comparison - rental IS pay-per-view - but there you go. Yes, self destructing DVDs have been tried before, but never coupled to on-line rental and delivery. There's a natural confluence here; a delivered disk that you don't have to return. Add to that the fact that on-line delivery lends itself to tiny startup much better than the retail model used by earlier self destructing technologies, and it might be enough to spell success (stress 'might').
Posted by: gir | February 26, 2006 at 08:28 PM
Something else to add is their inability to let you choose which movies you want. Please read the following question posted here and Lief's answer.
""And do you even get to pick what you want or do they just send what they think you like?""
"Great question. We need to start somewhere and our intention is to carry 2-3 titles per week in the beginning of the service, and gradually expand the offering of new titles to the point where you can control the titles you would receive each week."
He is giving no time-frame as to when, or if, you would be able to get the discs you want.
Imagine if Netflix or Blockbuster ignored your queue, or didn't have a queue, and sent you whatever they wanted. If fact imagine if you went into a local rental store and they told you you had to accept what they had even if it was not what you wanted. I don't think, in either scenario, they would have too many customers.
What Lief is saying is; Pay $25.00 a month for 8 DVD's. If you don't want to see the titles we have it's just too bad because until (unless) we change it this is what you will get.
I beileve that Lief is hoping to get enough paying cusatomers so they can purchase the rights to other titles. If I am right, that means they are looking to us for some start-up capital. I am very wary of a company that can't even afford the trademark fee.
Posted by: Tester | February 26, 2006 at 08:45 PM
It appears that Lief is no longer interested in participating on this topic.
Posted by: Tester | February 27, 2006 at 07:17 PM