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Smy

I can certainly attest to that. It's also great for lowering cable and satellite bills~

Gary

Streaming is a nice bonus to the DVD side of the Netflix experience (when it works) but for pure picture and sound quality, it cannot compete with a physical DVD. As a Home Theater owner, the big screen is my main focus. I love the superior picture quality of physical media. I did not build my system to be solely subjected to a substandard, grainy, low pixel count picture. Increasing to HD improves this situation to a point, but causes constant bandwidth over runs resulting in the dreaded "Your Internet Connection Has Slowed. We Are Adjusting Playback To Prevent Any Further Interruptions" message which means we are going to give you a somewhat more grainy picture to watch. At times I get this message and the stream never restarts. This generally happens at peak use times indicating server overload. This isn't surprising considering that Netflix streaming is handled by Amazon's Cloud Service.

As to the piracy issue, I do not mind paying for what I get, but I want to get what I pay for. As a result dear Netflix, here is some free advice:
Do not neglect the DVD side of your business. It's what got you where you are. The streaming side is a nice bonus, but the service is at best buggy, at worst unusable. One very easy fix you could make would be to drop your ridiculous exclusion to streaming to a PC with anything other than Windows. The Linux family of operating systems are here, ready, and much more stable and internet efficient than Windows will ever be, yet you exclude them. The Roku devices that you partner with and heavily promote are entirely Linux based. Were you not aware of this? MLB TV finally got wise to this and the experience with streaming from them improved dramatically. I know a great many people who experience the same problems, so it isn't just me. Here's to hoping you will address these issues, and while I won't be holding my breath, I will be watching for a response with great interest.

TZ

yep! definitely

but don't ask those morons in the HBO thread.

Edshugeo The GodMoor

Netflix has certainly reduced the amount of downloading I do. Of course, for new releases and stuff I can't get on Netflix, it's off to Usenet (not counting the flicks I see in the theatre and/or buy on Blu-ray).

andyg8180

yes indeed... Yes it would be nice to get the newer shows on other networks, but considering how much there is to watch already, i have no time or desire to BT and watch those...

Roy

It probably does impact piracy, though sadly I have anecdotal evidence the impact is variable -- the last time I visited my brother and sister in law, they informed me they had terminated their Netflix service because "our son [my nephew!] just downloads any movie we want to see for us, somehow, for free."

facepalm.

-roy

The Incredible Coffeeman

*Moves to the front and center of the room*

Hello, My name is The Coffeeman, and I'm a recovering internet pirating addict.

*Hi, Coffee*

I've been clean for about a year now, give or take. I wanted to say that without my good friend Netflix, I would have never made it this far.

*begins to tear up*

Oh, shit, my IP adress being broadcasted here?!

*gets anxious and runs out of the room*

mikeR

I'm with Gary. Streaming is OK, but can't match the DVD/Blu-ray quality and experience.

Steve I

I've never downloaded movies/programming over a torrent or other method of d/l'ing content over the net, BUT...over the years I've done my share of copying DVD's, burning stuff to DVD that I've snagged on my DVR, etc.. But I bought LOTs of DVD's and Blue-Rays too....

In the last year or so, between Netflix streaming and DirecTV's VOD services I'm not copying/burning much of anything anymore. If the programming I want to see is available "out there" at the push of a button, I've got very little need for "warehousing" the physical media.

Now.....haven't seen anything that'll beat the PQ of a Blu-Ray....I'm still buying those. But I don't understand the comments about the poor quality of streaming from Netflix. If you're going to utilize services like these you NEED to be running suitable internet connection speeds that can sustain transfer speeds. You need to have suitable infrastructure in your own home to support it also.

I'm streaming to a 32" LCD in my master bedroom over my wifi as well as a 65" DLP in my family room through a PS3. PQ in both systems is excellent, no buffering, no pixilation, no artifacts...just a GREAT picture, even on the SD stuff.

Of course I'm running 20mbps internet service that comes in on fiber, my downstairs system is hardwired to the network, and I upgraded my home's wifi from G to N to handle the speeds I needed for streaming to my upstairs unit over wifi (I did get a bit of rebuffering with wireless G).

I always scratch my head when I see comments (which I didn't see in this thread, but I've seen them) about why Netflix streaming looks so crappy....."I mean I've got high speed internet (768k DSL) and I'm streaming through a Wii to a 10 year old 55" HD Ready projection set"...

Really??????

The Incredible Coffeeman

High speed internet at 768k DSL? lol that is a joke. Cox internet offers 110MBps a second as their highest "home" speed. I use the 55mbps speed. Now, while I never see all 55mbps, I do get well over 10 consistantly while using a wireless N router. I very, VERY rarely have issues with Netflix streaming. It always looks great. Most of the reason I gave up pirating. That and it's evil. And it's like making your computer have sex with a chick in a red dress that's standing on the corner of Kellogg and Broadway. Not the pretty kind, either.

Steve I

Yep....ISP's call 768k DSL "high speed".....my dad thinks he's got "high speed", he moved from dial up to 768k DSL ;-)

I've got 20mbps service through Qwest, it pretty much always gives me sustained transfer rates between 16mbps and 18mbps.

Hank

Of course Netflix streaming has reduced, albeit marginally, the total number of pirated downloads.

If you are already paying for Netflix and you are a lazy, casual pirate you will just stream it from Netflix (for no extra cost to you) rather than hassle with downloading. Those people are still going to pirate stuff not available on Netflix streaming, however.

But are there a significant number of people who give up pirating altogether because of Netflix? Unlikely.

Are there a significant number of habitual pirates who sign up for Netflix just so they can honestly pay at least some of the license holders a fair price? Unlikely.

Would many of those pirates who use streaming still do so if they had to pay a nominal fee of, say, 50 cents, to stream from Netflix? Unlikely.

Would the owner of premium content make more money licensing that content to Netflix just to avoid a relatively small number of downloads. Highly unlikely.

Truck

I was pretty into pirating when I had a tube TV and any shitty rip from the internet looked good on it (through a video card with a TV output). Once I got an HDTV, HD cable, an Xbox and Netflix I was pretty much done.

That being said, I'm exactly in the same boat as Gary up there-- I only use Netflix for the Instant titles that are in HD + DVDs. The SD content might as well not even exist to me. And Starz Play... my god, what is wrong with the video on all the Starz Play movies? It looks like they changed the framerate 10 different times; all the motion is choppy and there are tons of ghosted/blurry frames. It reminds me of the CAM rips that pirates do of movies that are still in theaters. I hope Netflix dumps Starz ASAP.

flawed

It's all about morals and values. Some people got them and some don't (BP). What people miss is how much money this takes out of hard working american's pockets. Everyone just says rich studios making millions but no one stops to think of the thousands of families that the make their living off the Entertainment Industry. Each act of piracy is just theft plain and simple you mid as well go to walmart and get to boosting. Just because your not getting caught doesn't make it right.

maubs

Absolutely NF reduces the amount I would obtain by 'other means.' Take for example the Starz Spartacus series and the ABC syndicated show Legend of the Seeker. I stopped obtaining those shows once they were available to me, within a few minutes and a few clicks (and at a reasonable price).
All this is dependent on having a decent internet connection, which I don't, now, so I'm back to alternative means, especially for those things that simply aren't available. I've been watching Forbrydelsen, the Danish series that AMC's The Killing is based on. Not even listed in the NF library.

BP

@ flawed

Don't be a dick and flat out lie about what I wrote.

Here:

http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2011/04/why-cant-we-stream-game-of-thrones-without-subscribing-to-hbo.html?cid=6a00d83451c1bb69e201538e10695e970b#comment-6a00d83451c1bb69e201538e10695e970b

You were uncharacteristically silent on the issue, most likely because your opinion would have amounted to absolute dog crap.

Do you think Reed likes to swim stark-ass naked through his gigantic money vault? Does that idea get you all bothered and hot to trot?

-BP

ts

I agree w/ the comments about NF streaming looking pretty good. There are a few titles I've watched that were a tad grainy but still very watchable. For the most part I have no issues and nearly everything I stream is nice and clear. Since switching to an LG w/ NF TV the buffering has stopped too. When I used a Roku box a few years ago I do remember it throttling down the steam occasionally. Doesn't happen w/ the LG though. What I would like to see is 5.1 sound; don't know why that can't be accomplished.

Edshugeo The GodMoor

The PS3 streams some content in 5.1

moron from HBO thread

Netflix, Hulu, and others have reduced the growth of piracy in the US, I don't think there is enough data to support that it has reduced piracy, it just isn't growing as fast as it was.

jheartney

If you are already paying for Netflix and you are a lazy, casual pirate you will just stream it from Netflix (for no extra cost to you) rather than hassle with downloading. Those people are still going to pirate stuff not available on Netflix streaming, however.

Given the length of my NF streaming queue, I can't really think of a reason to try downloading anything. Generally whatever's not available to stream is available on DVD, so I have much better things to do than babysit some torrent that may or may not be encoded decently or be in the right language.

But are there a significant number of people who give up pirating altogether because of Netflix? Unlikely.

Are there a significant number of habitual pirates who sign up for Netflix just so they can honestly pay at least some of the license holders a fair price? Unlikely.

Would the owner of premium content make more money licensing that content to Netflix just to avoid a relatively small number of downloads. Highly unlikely.

Any evidence to back up these assertions? (Only asking since in the HBO thread you berated me repeatedly for not having evidence.)

Would many of those pirates who use streaming still do so if they had to pay a nominal fee of, say, 50 cents, to stream from Netflix? Unlikely.

Is Netflix planning to institute such a charge? Assuming they aren't, what does this question have to do with anything?

Hank

Given the length of my NF streaming queue, I can't really think of a reason to try downloading anything. Generally whatever's not available to stream is available on DVD, so I have much better things to do than babysit some torrent that may or may not be encoded decently or be in the right language.

So you're saying that you used to be a frequent downloader of illegal content, but now that Netflix has started streaming you no longer do so? Otherwise your point is completely off topic.

There are just so many things wrong with your statement - it defies simple logic, it's inconsistent with your other posts and it contradicts the anecdotal evidence we can find in this thread and others just on HN alone. While what you say may be true for you alone, although I doubt it, it's not true for many/most others who've posted here.

You say the content Netflix has for streaming is so completely fulfilling that people no longer need to resort to illegal downloads? Yet we hear frequently that Netflix needs to get a lot more content. Some people want newer content, some better quality, some want it with subtitles, some want things you can't get in the US, and some want content such as "Game of Thrones" that Netflix couldn't even reasonably get right now. Your point is absurd and it's hard to take you seriously when you waffle back and forth on your position.

You (and others) are giving up on pirating because of all the great content Netflix is making available? Hasn't your position always been that once someone starts pirating that they will never go back to paying reasonable prices for content? How do you reconcile those two contradictory positions?

Any evidence to back up these assertions? (Only asking since in the HBO thread you berated me repeatedly for not having evidence.)

You see where I say "Unlikely" in those statements? That's obviously an opinion expressed as a probability. Very different from the kind of wild absolute statements you were making.

So let me get this straight - you believe there are a significant number of people who gave up pirating completely because of Netflix streaming? Or are you just being an ass by trying to contradict everything I say. Just because you had your feelings hurt in the last thread doesn't mean you should try to derail this one as well with your petty attacks.

s Netflix planning to institute such a charge? Assuming they aren't, what does this question have to do with anything?

Once again showing you'd rather just be an obstinate ass rather than think about the topic - the point would have been clear to anyone who wasn't seeing red.

While some illegal downloading may have declined because of Netflix it is likely only because pirates have an easier option for some free content - it does not prove they are willing to pay a "reasonable" fee for all their content, as some would contend.

ScottZ

Netflix absolutely reduces the amount of piracy. The Video content industry would be foolish to wage war on Netflix. Netflix is a unique and solid revenue stream.

jheartney

Hank, while you reply goes on for some time, and includes lots of abuse aimed my way, it's completely devoid of evidence backing your assertions. And no, the fact that you used the word "unlikely" doesn't let you off the hook; statements of probability can be supported empirically, even though you don't bother trying.

it defies simple logic

Don't think that word means what you think it means.

You say the content Netflix has for streaming is so completely fulfilling that people no longer need to resort to illegal downloads?

No, I was saying it is for me. You were the one leaping to the notion that I was speaking for everyone.

I'm really not interested in re-arguing the HBO thread - it went on too long anyway, and you are apparently too thick to get simple points even when they are explained multiple times.

While some illegal downloading may have declined because of Netflix it is likely only because pirates have an easier option for some free content - it does not prove they are willing to pay a "reasonable" fee for all their content, as some would contend.

The reasonable fee is their Netflix subscription. No idea where you got the idea that tacking on additional fees was at all germane.

Anyway, I'll ask again: Any evidence to support your assertions?

AirBear

As with any black market activity, this would be an almost absolutely impossible data set to track.

It could cut both ways, in my opinion. For example, so many people have become addicted to Dexter because seasons 1 and 2 are on WI but not the rest of the seasons. So those already inclined to pirate will get seasons 3-5 downloaded to satiate their appetites.

Hank

it's completely devoid of evidence backing your assertions. And no, the fact that you used the word "unlikely" doesn't let you off the hook; statements of probability can be supported empirically, even though you don't bother trying.

You really are stubborn, aren't you? Any reasonable person would take what I said as a matter of opinion, a starting point for a discussion and not an absolute statement of fact. When I go on to explicitly say that that is just an opinion (albeit an educated, reasoned opinion) you continue to ask for proof.

No, I was saying it is for me. You were the one leaping to the notion that I was speaking for everyone.

Since you were replying directly to a post of mine is it really surprising that I thought it would be relevant? My apologies, then. I guess you were just giving us random unrelated info about your personal habits. Care to tell us whether you like crunchy or smooth peanut butter then?

So I guess you are in fact not disagreeing with my generalization. Thanks for wasting our time.

The reasonable fee is their Netflix subscription. No idea where you got the idea that tacking on additional fees was at all germane.

You're not following the thread, are you? As I said, those pirates are not paying EXTRA for the streaming service - active pirates are not flocking to Netflix en masse just to feel good about paying for 30% of the content they download. The minor reduction in illegal downloads (if it is real) could be explained by existing Netflix subscribers who were active pirates (like yourself) who now choose the easier option for some of their online content. I expect most of them would take $5 off their subscription and go back to all illegal downloads if that were an option.

Anyway, I'll ask again: Any evidence to support your assertions?

You want me to document evidence on my opinions. Even my opinions that don't differ than yours? Classic troll, wasting time.

hypocrisy rules

@Hank

Just an opinion, here, but you seem to be the one who is acting extremely closed minded about opinions that differ from your own and go directly into attack mode rather than continuing with civil debate.

I apologize if this makes you angry...that is not my intent. My hope is that you will step back and think for a moment, and possibly approach debates with other-minded folks with a more constructive mindset. Debate gets so much more interesting when it involves open-minded people coming from vastly different perspectives. I think your input can make for some interesting threads.

Racket

Piracy begins when content is initially released. It increases from that point until it is released on DVD, at which point it begins to decrease. Netflix cannot directly effect this artificial window of piracy because they do not get this content during that time.

The way Netflix does effect piracy is that there is an expectation that if you wait, you can just see it on Netflix. If you are spending your time watching things on Netflix you are not surfing for illegal downloads.

Online piracy is a result of artificial scarcity combined with an artificial price control.

You can not eliminate piracy, but you can mitigate it by increasing availability and decreasing price. What is the sweet spot, how much piracy is tolerable for the producer. Its economics 101.

Hank

@hypocrisy, I don't know if you read the entire "Game of Thrones" thread or just came in at the end. But it was a quite reasonable discussion of differing opinions, until ...

jheartney accused those with differing opinions of having an agenda (effectively saying that everything we've just spent two pages talking about was complete bullshit).

I don't recall if I've had any major conflicts with Racket in the past, but let's compare how he has argued his point vs. how jheartney has tried to make his.

Racket:
- opinions are clearly opinions, facts and conclusions are reasonable and consistent
- actually reads, thinks about and responds to other peoples posts

Jheartney
- states opinions as facts and then makes inconsistent conclusions based on those made up facts (although maybe when your facts are made up I shouldn't expect your conclusions to be consistent)
- doesn't read what others write, just goes into attack mode (several times he's basically repeated what I've just said as a rebuttal to me)
- selectively responds to posts addressed to him, not addressing his inconsistencies, just continuing on his rant

Hy, I'm curious as to what data or opinion you think jheartney has brought to this discussion that I'm closed minded about. Is he really just trying to make the point that Racket just made in his last post (which I agree with)? If so, then he should just keep quiet and let Racket do the heavy lifting.

jheartney

Any reasonable person would take what I said as a matter of opinion, a starting point for a discussion and not an absolute statement of fact.

Except, maybe, persons named "Hank" who repeatedly demanded that I back up my opinions with evidence in previous threads. Sauce for the goose, as they say. You are a remarkably non-self-aware person, my friend.

Since you were replying directly to a post of mine is it really surprising that I thought it would be relevant?

It's called offering a personal anecdote. People often do this in forums like this one. Most of the time it doesn't lead to name-calling by other participants.

As I said, those pirates are not paying EXTRA for the streaming service - active pirates are not flocking to Netflix en masse just to feel good about paying for 30% of the content they download.

Why should they have to pay extra for having Netflix if they aren't pirating anymore? How do you know they're still pirating? Where did your 30% figure come from? Oh, yeah, must be one of those opinions you've given yourself permission not to have to back up.

The minor reduction in illegal downloads (if it is real) could be explained by existing Netflix subscribers who were active pirates (like yourself) who now choose the easier option for some of their online content.

Uh, yes, this is what the thread is about. Not sure why you feel the need for all the vitriol if you're going to (grudgingly) admit that the people you're castigating are right.

I expect most of them would take $5 off their subscription and go back to all illegal downloads if that were an option.

Another bit of speculation you have special dispensation to put out based on nothing. Oh-kay...

The Incredible Coffeeman

Uh... *points fingers* HE STARTED IT!

And, uh...

I like extra crunchy :)

jheartney

Jheartney
- states opinions as facts and then makes inconsistent conclusions based on those made up facts (although maybe when your facts are made up I shouldn't expect your conclusions to be consistent)
- doesn't read what others write, just goes into attack mode (several times he's basically repeated what I've just said as a rebuttal to me)
- selectively responds to posts addressed to him, not addressing his inconsistencies, just continuing on his rant

Can you show me some examples from this thread of me doing any of these things?

Mrmanmac

I can only speak for myself when I say I don't pirate (copy DVD's)anywhere near as much as i used to. There is more than enough content on the streaming service that i no longer feel the need to. Besides once you have seen a movie (all of which were obtained legally) how many times are you really going to watch it again when there is a ton of stuff you haven't seen available on Netflix? My instant queue is so long i am sure i will never get through all of it. One thing I will not do is purchase DVD's or Blu Ray Discs. I am old enough that I have seen the technology change enough times to know that anything I purchase today will be outdated within a decade or so, and I will end up throwing all of that legally obtained intellectual property in the trash, and I will be expected to pay for it again sometime down the road.

The Incredible Coffeeman

As stupid as it actually sounds, my first comment is pretty accurate. I started when I was like six or seven (believe it was called KAZZAZ) and didn't really know it was illegal. I found out within like a year or so, but I was hooked and didn't care much. Since then, I've grown more of a conscience, but haven't been able to kick the habit. I got netflix though, and since then, I've finally been able to flip the pirate the bird (or the parrot). I don't pirate anything now, to include software and music as well. This of course means my music library is somewhat old, but I think I'll fix that with itunes or napster soon.

Hank

jheartney, it's become abundantly clear that there is no getting through that thick skull of yours. Since I'm no longer amused by mocking you, I'll leave you alone with your muddled thoughts.

BTW, see Mmanmac's post? That's how you leave a "personal anecdote" without making it into much more than it is.

Bigamos14

To be honest, before I got Netflix, I was a torrent whore. Netflix made me do things legally again.

Brianca

I only resort to Bitorrent for British television shows such as Spooks, Being Human, Sherlock, ect. and thats only because Netflix is on a delay just like BBC-America as to when it gets the content. And one thing that I didn't like is that when I viewed series 1 of Being Human on NetFlix it was the BBC-America "edited" version complete with blurred nudity and edited out language. Why can't we watch the program as the makers intended?

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