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things

"Elimination of Saturday Delivery Will Have "Little, If Any, Impact on Subscribers"

except for those who get movies on a Saturday.

Along with the recent forced wait window for new movies and still long wait times...I wonder if NF has officially lost touch with its customers like all big comapnies eventually do at some point.

Aaron

"The online retailer would shift at least a sixth of its business to other carriers"? To whom?

dave

I get some netflix movies delivered on Saturday. It would SUCK to have them not show up until Monday!!!

Nathan

I am assuming that he is saying that it will not have a big effect because of the growing usage of Instand Watch. I could definetly find things to IW if I do not get anything on Saturdays.

PRTV

Well I'd have to say bye-bye to my mail order business. We get our shipments on Saturday for processing on Sunday and out Monday, I'd loose an ENTIRE business day which, in this day and age, would KILL my business!

dave

While we use IW a LOT, NOTHING beats the quality of a Blu Ray!

PatB

Wrong Dave. Something indeed beats the quality of Blu-ray. It's called content.

I have a Blu-ray player and a good Blu-ray has a better image quality on my 110" screen than any DVD or any HD cable broadcast. But it's not a whole lot better. If I start a movie and discover it to be dreck - I turn it off. I've never started a Comcast HD or NetFlix Watch Instantly HD movie and stopped it because it wasn't quite a good as Blu-ray. Maybe you do.

Back in the HiFi days there were those who only listened to the first two or three minutes of "Thus Spake Zarathustra" to show off their woofers. And there were those who listened to music.

the dude

Anyone else feel these 2 entities have grown a little too close over the past few years?

byteme

@Aaron:

"The online retailer would shift at least a sixth of its business to other carriers"? To whom?

This is referring to Amazon. They would shift that business to UPS.

janes'_kid

No Saturday USPS service at Netflix will affect my viewing and ordering experiences.


I've never gotten anything from Amazon via USPS.

Greg Finley

I don't see why the government needs to subsidize people who choose to live in areas that are so remote that the residents can't drive somewhere and buy a DVD.

dave

PatB, I was referring to the QUALITY OF THE IMAGE when I said nothing beats Blu Ray. CONTENT was not my intended subject.

BoB

@Aaron and @byteme:

"The online retailer would shift at least a sixth of its business to other carriers"? To whom?

"This is referring to Amazon. They would shift that business to UPS."


Not UPS I'm guessing but maybe to FedEx Home. They do standard deliveries on Saturday (Tuesday-Sat) at no extra expense. UPS & FedEx (Express & Ground) only do weekends at a surcharge.

BoB

@James_kid

"I've never gotten anything from Amazon via USPS."


Order books with the free ship over $25 option. They always come USPS Media Mail.

John Galt

It's easy to see why Netflix isn't bothered by lack of Sat delivery. Unlike their customers, for Netflix there is no downside. In fact they only gain, just by the fact that people will be able to receive/watch less DVD's. I often get my DVD's on Saturday, watch them over the weekend, and return on Monday. I then get another set on Wednesday, and am able to watch one or two that night, and then return on Thursday, and get a new set on Saturday. With lack of Saturday delivery, that will no longer be the case. Netflix wins, customer loses.

Terry

I'm with John. I do a similar pattern, except I receive my movies on Tuesdays (ship out Weds) and Fridays (ship out Sat), in order to receive new releases on Tuesdays. With my three out at a time plan, I could get six movies in one week, but this will most certainly be affected. Way to go, Netflix, only being concerned with yourself and not those filling your pockets.

Hank

Well it looks like the freeloaders have spoken.

It's idiotic to say that Netflix doesn't care about the value of service that its customers receive. If they wanted to shortchange customers on disc deliveries they wouldn't have implemented Saturday processing, shorten turnaround processing etc.

But it IS fair to say that they don't care too much about you guys in particular - the ones who turn discs over as soon as they get them and end up earning Netflix little profit (or in many cases costing them money).

Any way they can improve service for their best customers while diminishing the costs from the freeloaders is indeed a good move for them (and for the rest of us, obviously).

Classaction

I have absolutely no problem with the US Postal Service stopping Saturday delivery... provided the federal government abolishes the postal monopoly and lets alternative carriers compete with "non-urgent" mail.

Ceecer

To those who label customers that turn our discs around quickly as "freeloaders", you may want to refresh your basic business knowledge. In a free market economy, businesses offer a service and set their price accordingly based on what the market will pay. If netflix has not factored those of us who like to maximize our dollar into their revenue model, shame on them (but I'm guessing they have.) How generous of you though, to under-utilize your own subscription dollars for their benefit.

Greg

This is odd for several reasons:

1. for years, the USPS has told business customers who send zillions of pieces of mail into the system, that if a service day was cut, it would not be Saturday, but instead, Tuesday. There are many reasons why cutting Saturday service would hurt USPS revenue and business, too many to list here.

2. The USPS gets no subsidies from the US Government, so it has had to pay the full cost (minus a small one time donation) of upgraded security post 9/11. They have also had to fund the automation of the USPS out of their own pocket. So there's reasons beyond the Internet why they're having troubles.

3. Any alternative service for sending home delivery mail would be very very selective in the markets it would serve. Do not fool yourself into thinking that you'd pay less to mail a letter to rural Arkansas or Alaska with an alternate carrier - if they'd take it at all. FedEx, UPS, and DHL have entire regions they will not deliver to under any circumstances, and none offer guarantees the USPS does, particularly with parcels. When I was constantly shipping print samples from our direct mail rusn, UPS would routinely lose 30%+ of our parcels and say "Fuck you!" if we complained. We never had that problem with USPS, who had an entire unit and a police force and inspectors devoted to ensuring our stuff went through on time.

Armchair bullshit about how Fedex would send your mail cheaper is that - bullshit. You have no idea how good you have it warts and all with USPS until we break it up, and then one day you'll have mail delivery as great as your cell phone service or your cable service -private monopolies with no reason to give two shits about you or mailing your bills and DVDs on time.

dave

Hank,

You are misguided in your thinking that anyone who turns around their discs in a timely fashion is a "freeloader". They are paying customers and choose to not dillydally between discs. There's nothing illegal, immoral, or deceptive in one returning discs quickly.

Hank

People who try to get the most out of their Netflix subscription are not freeloaders. They only become "freeloaders" when they bitch that the sweet deal they are getting is becoming slightly less sweet.

You're the guys who take up a friend's offer to crash for a while at his place. But then you balk when he asks you to wash your own sheets. "Hey man, that wasn't part of the deal when you invited me over. This sucks."

Deadbeats, freeloaders, what have you.

Donutdon

If continuing to receive DVDs (and other mail) on Saturday is really that important to you, go down to your local post office and rent a box. Mail will still be delivered to P.O. boxes on Saturdays after they eliminate carrier delivery.

dave

Hank,

So, now you are comparing Netflix subscribers who turn their discs in quickly, with homeless guys who crash at friend's homes?? And who is "b*tching about "less sweet" deals??? You aren't making a lot of sense, so I'm going to bow out of this discussion with you. Cheers.

dave

donutdon,

doesn't driving back and forth to the post office defeat the benefit of having Netflix discs sent DIRECTLY TO ONE'S HOME??? I take it you were being sarcastic when you mentioned getting a PO BOX. I sure HOPE you were being sarcastic, as that's a bizarre idea, as EVERY disc, delivered ANY DAY of the week, would go to the PO BOX. Super inconvenient.

Classaction

Greg:

As to point #2:

It's simply not true that the USPS is not subsidized by the Federal government. The USPS operates by Congressional appropriation - that is, every year, the federal government sets aside a chunk of money to run the post office with. For many years, with the benefit of the postal monopoly, the USPS took in more money than it spent, and this money was appropriated by the government as "revenue foregone."

However, since the early 2000s, the USPS has been running significant deficits. Since 2007, the USPS has accumulated approximately $10 BILLION dollars in debt. Yet despite the fact that in 2007, the USPS ran a $5.1 billion dollar deficit, they still received appropriations for next year's operations. In 2008, the USPS ran a deficit of another $2.8 billion dollars, but still received appropriations for the next year. These monies -- spending by the government not previously received as revenue foregone, are direct financial subsidies.

As to point #3:

If it costs more to send things to people who live far away from major population centers... well, so what? Why shouldn't a small subset of the population pay more for their mail when it costs significantly more per parcel to ship it out to them? The same way you pay more for food that has to be shipped a long distance, etc. Why should everyone else subsidize folks that choose to live in the sticks?

Hank

dave, you failed to understand PatB's post and mine has also sailed right over your head. I'm sensing a pattern.

You don't like my "homeless" analogy? How about this one:

You're the guy who shows up at the potluck empty-handed and then complains that the food was not as good as last year's.

Nothing illegal, immoral or deceptive about that either. But you're still a moocher.

Classaction

Meh, these analogies are weak. It's not like showing up to a potluck empty-handed, because (1) you're not "empty-handed" - you pay your fee like every other subscriber, and (2) netflix is not like a potluck because a potluck is a non-market social gathering governed by principles like reciprocity and friendship, whereas Netflix is a business venture.

Why bother with lame analogies? Netflix operates under a business model that is extremely profitable for them based on a flat-fee, all you can eat service, and that it's possible for some people to use the services in a way that actually costs Netflix money. Netflix could change this if they wanted, but they won't because most of the remedies would negatively effect their profitable customers. That's it. The high volume users know it. Netflix knows it. There's an uneasy truce at this point, but it doesn't make one side moochers or whiners.

Shawn

I wish the USPS would just stop talking and stop Saturday service, if it means keeping the postage rates the same then I'm all for it.

Waiting til Monday won't kill anyone.

BP

@Classaction

You're a fucking prat and a right proper tosser. There, no analogies of any sort, just the truth. You're a giant moron and you are wrong. You couldn't be any more wrong if your parents were cousins.

Happy? Unlike most people here I'm not going to bother with little known things like facts or logical reasoning, just going to say it straight up: you've not a clue. Like the Star Wars prequels, your "ideas" are the placenta of the stillborn that should have been aborted, ill-conceived by someone lacking all responsibility to what it is they've created. Like Lucas, you might have gotten something right at some point but, odds are, that was most likely either an accident or due to outside influences.

Good day!

Classaction

I've been insulted in a lot of ways, but that's the first time I've been compared to a Star Wars movie.

"Hmmm... yousa point is well seen."

Chris M.

I don't consider paying $30.00 a month "freeloading. Is it my fault that the company I'm paying advertises "unlimited movie rentals a month" when in reality if I rent more than 14 movies a month(that's 1 every 2 days)they lose money when I have a four out at a time plan? Of course Netflix is OK with losing Saturday service. They benefit finacially. Some of us actually like to use the service that we pay for. I'm sure Netflix would like us to pay our "unlimited" a month fee and only rent 3 movies the entire month like the poster who regards anybody who actually expects to get what they paid for as "freeloaders.

By the way you should check into some remedial english classes. The definition of freeloader is someone who expects something without paying ANYTHING in return. You show me one Netflix subscriber who is paying $0.00 for their movies a month.(maybe people who work for Netflix)

Christopher

Honestly here getting your dvd's in a PO BOX is a stupid idea. It just eliminates the whole reason you have netflix to begin with, you might as well just rent your dvd's from BB. I hope you weren't being serious.

me

sounds like they are sucking up to the usps to get preferred treatment.

Hank

Do you guys enjoy misreading my posts just so you have a target at which to vent some repressed anger? It would seem so.

As I've already said, there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of Netflix's policies to get the most out of your subscription. Netflix's business model (which is brilliant, but not unique) is designed with the understanding that some customers will not be profitable (just as in an all-you-can-eat buffet). They understand that and graciously accept those users without complaint.

However, the whining to Netflix and to other Netflix customers are out of line. Netflix is offering you freeloaders tremendous value (yet you demand more) and other Netflix users are paying the bill. Show a little class and accept that.

Chris and classaction, your definition of "freeloader" is narrowly defined and your interpretation of the analogies are deliberately skewed, but I'll play along.

You're the guy who brings a two dollar bag of chips to the potluck. Hey, you're not coming empty-handed, you're following the rules: tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night. But yet you still complain that the hard to make and expensive dishes others have cooked are not exactly to your liking.

The bottom line is that you're not paying your fair share to Netflix which (once again) is perfectly within your rights and Netflix (and I) accept that many users are in that class. Even bitching about it by calling Netflix greedy and unconcerned about their customers is also well within your rights. But it is very low class and its falling on deaf ears.

Feel free to consider Netflix as just a "business venture", but you can't have it both ways. If that's your attitude then don't ask or expect them to respect anything other than the bottom line.

Hank's Nemesis

I don't mind being called a 'free-loader', as long as Hank starts referring to himself as a 'useful idiot'.

JJH2

Hank,

Well, actually, I'd prefer it if we just ditched the analogies since they aren't very useful. You demonstrate a perfectly cogent knowledge of the underlying business dynamic, so why bother with lame analogies?

I don't expect anything "both ways" - I'm not a "power user." I've had The Hurt Locker sitting at home for going on my third week and I've only seen half of it. Netflix is making decent money off of me. I just think both sides of this argument are needlessly sanctimonious. Oh, yeah, and I hate inapt analogies.

dave

Hank, your analogies are also falling on "deaf ears". Give it up, already!

ritch

There's no problem with turning around Netflix DVDs as fast as you want, assuming you're not illegally copying them before sending them back.

Hank

Analogies are merely a crutch to help those who fail to understand the simple observation I stated earlier: you guys are getting a sweet deal and yet you complain that the company who's giving you that deal is greedy or insensitive by not being concerned that it might be slightly less sweet in the future.

If you don't like the analogies then explain why you think they are "inapt", don't dismiss them just because you don't want to face the conclusion.

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