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Btoy

I noticed a bunch of Discovery channel shows are set to expires at beginning of June. Any word on if they will be renewed?

Tester

My grandson will be thrilled with the additional episodes of SpongeBob and the addition of Yo Gabba Gabba.

Johnson1965Tony

More old reruns yipeee.

Johnson1965Tony

When I'm too poor to pay for first run content, new programming, sports, recent releases and a hundred channels that feature reruns of the same content that NFLX gets people to pay for, I may drop cable and live in the past. In the meantime, I have a life, watch what I want to see when I want to see it and actually leave my couch to spend time in the world. If the day ever comes when I'm housebound and living in abject poverty I may cut the cable cord. In the meantime, NFLX offers me absolutely nothing other than one and two star straight to video bombs that I can't see on cable other than a few good documentaries I've already burned through.

Johnson1965Tony

I also like how they trump up all the Viacom titles being added but no mention of all the viacom product that is going away.

http://instantwatcher.com/titles/expiring?view=normal&popups=1&infinite=1

gir

NetFlix is a wonderful value if you're tired of paying outrageous cable rates, has a shload of great movies and shows, and is getting more all the time.

Po-tay-to, po-taa-to.

mikek

I just deleted some of the comments on this story, and I'm getting frustrated with Johson (Jolly, BP108, Popsicle, etc.), Tester, etc.

Johnson1965Tony, I really don't want to ban you. If you would knock off the attacks, you could be a good addition to the community. Not everything about Netflix is good news, and you've pointed out some things that the community would find interesting. If you have a story idea I'd appreciate an email.

However, if you guys can't be civil I'll ban all of you. I'm getting tired of the personal attacks.

- Mike

Rocketboy_X

Mike, just get out the banhammer. The only thing I can think of to troll here is to be a shill for cable. And they are not even doing it right.

Marshall

I'm curious as to how this bodes for Hulu. Hulu had a short window with Viacom while they were still squabbling with Netflix. Now some viacom programs are showing up on Netflix within weeks of it's Hulu debut depending on how the seasons run and what deal Hulu has with that show.

This is all very complicated however because Hulu seems to only get a portion of the programing that Netflix does but it gets newer shows on a season pass basis.

BP

Is it REALLY not that obvious to you, Mike, that Johnson1965Tony is also Jolly/BP108/etc? I mean, really, is it not that obvious?

When you switched to requiring TypePad registration/OpenID, Jolly signed up for a brand new twitter account that (1) had no tweets and (2) no followers/no followings. Johnson1965Tony appeared immediately after you banned BP108 using the exact same system - new twitter, no tweets, no followers/followings. Do you really think it's not the same person?

Perhaps you simply should close down the comments section of Hacking Netflix. There are other Netflix communities to comment in, though I do view this one as the best. That said, one guy is ruining it, and you're enabling it by endorsing some pretty hefty false equivalency, and even engaging in some yourself. Let's see here...

Many folks here swear and engage in "personal attacks" against Jolly.

Jolly says that the only way he would drop cable and use Netflix is if he found himself living in abject poverty. This equates poor people with Netflix, and is an attack worse than anything anyone else has ever said on this blog.

Not only do you endorse that attack, but you say it would make Jolly a valuable community member. Then, in the same breath, you compare many commentator's contributions to this blog - namely, taking Jolly down a peg or five - to being every bit as bad as, if not worse than, flat out stating that Netflix is a service for poor people. That's the worst of his false equivalences, but insinuating that Netflix users are basement dwelling couch potatoes is pretty bad, too.

So what, exactly, does he have to add again, and why, exactly, do you expect us to act civil when you're failing to moderate your own forum? I'm beginning to think you WANT Jolly here, and that's fine, but don't go looking for bullshit reasons to get rid of people who actually contribute. He's the problem, and so's your comparing his bullshit to our coping-with-his-bullshit-mechanisms, not us.

You seem like a nice enough guy, and Hacking Netflix provides an invaluable service, but you're making the one mistake that inevitably every internet nice guy makes: trying to provide an even and level playing field. That always destroys communities, and it's almost done that to Hacking Netflix on repeat occasions. People fight, that's natural. I fight. That's good. Communities need controversy, it's good for the heart and soul. What they don't need is obvious out-and-out trolling - I'm talking people with no other purpose than to disrupt discussion.

So, let's recap that point:

Good community members trolling = healthy
Bad community members trolling = unhealthy

There is a distinction, and it's one I am so utterly amazed at just how often people fail to understand. Without healthy trolling, you develop a hivemind. With unhealthy trolling, you develop into Usenet. And guess what? Usenet's fucking dead.

-BP

Tester

Rocketboy X

"Mike, just get out the banhammer. The only thing I can think of to troll here is to be a shill for cable."

There are other reasons. The troll, for whatever reason dislike Netflix. S/he could also be jealous of Mike K and his site and figure by causing a lot of dissension it would make a lot of good users leave.

Maybe the troll is a disgruntled Blockbuster subscriber ticked off at Netflix because s/he falsely believes Netflix caused the downfall of Blockbuster.

The troll could be someone who is incapable of having a decent discussion or debate. That person could get their kicks by getting others, like myself, to react.

On the other hand the person could just be crazy.

BP

You know, I feel the need to post this, as well.

I see a lot of folks on the internet use the word "trolling" as a catch-all for things they don't like. If I say something people dislike, I'm trolling. If I say something controversial, I'm trolling. If I say something inflammatory, I'm trolling. And it doesn't just go for me, it goes for everyone. And that's inaccurate.

Trolling originated on Usenet as a way to get the goat of new members, or as a way of generating controversy vis a vis devil's advocacy. Both of those are healthy, and is a perfectly normal and healthy function of human discourse.

The problem comes when people refuse to endear themselves to a community and instead simply troll. This is how the noun form of trolling came about, and there's quite an obvious difference. A community member, whether held in esteem or not, can troll perfectly healthily, and generate a controversial discussion that can easily alter people's perceptions or broaden their views. It is a good thing, and helps keep communities vibrant. A perfect example of this would be Edward R Murrow and PatB. I rarely ever agree with them and for the most part I think they're both a couple of nonces (non-traditional, modern definition), but they provide a vital service to this community in that they stimulate a conversation that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Despite how I respond to them and the "attacks" I might drop while engaging them, I respect their position within this community and wish they would post more often, if for no other reason than they provide an outlet with which to debunk claims or myths people might not otherwise read about.

The point I am trying to make is that there is good trolling and bad trolling. Some people get that, some don't. There is the act of trolling, there are lower-case trolls (good community members who occasionally make extremely controversial statements or, more often, are simply taking the piss) and there are Capital-T Trolls (bad community members who want nothing more than to disrupt a community and ruin it).

I enjoy trolling, and view myself as a lower-case troll. I think that's obvious. Sometimes I forget that I don't make it obvious enough - it's a flaw derived from my perception that everyone views the internet in the same light - that any personal attacks I might issue are akin to the sort of shit you give your best mate at a pub. That's it, really.

Then there are Capital-T Trolls like Jolly. They aren't 4channers or SA goons simply taking the piss - that's a subset of good trolling - they're fucked up crazies with no ability to actually interact with actual humans hellbent on destroying communities. The sort of people who had no friends in high school not because they were awkward, shy, socially inept computer geeks, but because they're the sort of kid that everyone secretly suspects lives in a house with fifty cats because he always reeks of urine, who wears hand me down clothes because his parents blow all their money on meth, and who doesn't really know how to talk about things that aren't directly related to putting hamsters into microwaves, and all that's A-OK really because it's more pitiable than it is actionable, but the real problem comes when that same kid is so socially maladjusted that his response to bullying isn't to put up his fists and defend himself or even report it to the authorities, but to instead make up a shit list while listening to Rammstein (because emo is so much moar bettar in German!) and then go indiscriminately spread a dozen bullets around campus for each and every ignored Valentine's card he ever sent. Which is why nobody likes him in the first place, because for all his faults, it's really only the fact that he gives off the Crazy Unhinged Douche vibe that ever damned him to being a social outcast in the first place.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that by having multiple, competing definitions of trolls and trolling, we actually weaken our argument for dealing with truly poisonous community members. It's all fine and good to say I troll, or he trolls, or to even pick out individual statements as merely being trolls. Being able to discern chicken shit from chicken salad is an important life skill. At some point, though, we've just go to call it like we see it, and say that crazy is crazy and, trolling or not, the community would be better off without them.

-BP, Honorary Doctorate in Interwebs Lolcology from Encyclopaedia Dramatica Gooniversity, PhD in Drama, Esq

Tester

I should not have allowed Jolly and all of his alter-ego names to push me to the point of posting what I did. I want to apologize to all who were offended by my comments to him.

I allowed what he is/was doing to fester until I couldn't take anymore from him. I am not using that as an excuse to justify what I did, especially since others here have taken just as much, if not more, from him without resorting to blowing up. I am simply letting you know why I did what I did.

Earlier this evening I spoke with Mike K and asked to to delete my account. Unfortunately he cannot do it so I will probably be doing it myself. He did ask me to wait a while before I delete it to see if things change here. Because I have been with Hacking Netflix for all but the first year, (I didn't realize that until Mike and I started talking about things), I will honor his request.

My biggest concern is I am not sure if I can keep from retaliating against the personal attacks from Jolly. If I feel I cannot then I will be deleting my TypePad account.

BP, this is for you personally; Up until today I never realized how much of a pain-in-the-rear Jolly is/was to you. I was totally wrong in being against your attacks on him. I didn't realize how much he (I'm trying to be civil toward him), could get under a person's skin. I should not have judged you unless/until I walked that proverbial mile in your shoes. Please accept my apology.

Tester

BP:

I've never looked at trolling, or Trolling, the way you showed it. What you've said makes sense to me.

The first time I heard about trolls was no more than 15 years ago. Even in my CompuServe, GEnie and The Source accounts way back when, I never heard it said. It appears I've had an inaccurate perception of trolling.

Btoy

Similar posts show up on the official netflix blog two always distorting the level of content offered by netflix with the appearence that the poster is trying to convince people not use netflix or harping about how the stock price is over priced and unsustainable. I maintain that I belive these posters hold short positions in Netflix stock and are trying to drive down the price.

Johnson1965Tony

Thanks Mike for trying to make it a level playing field.
Tester and BP are both a couple of hypocrites. I don't care how they want to break down the definition of a troll or pretend like they have been victimized. To be honest their opinions don't really matter to me because they are just the flip side of the coin. The way they both go about trying to bash and drag people through the mud disqualifies their opinions for me because they both have a steak in this other then $8 streaming. Especially when they threaten to leave the forum. (BYE!!) Who are they to give ultimatums?

As far as my credentials they are inconsequencial with names like tester and BP I do not feel obligated to disclose any informtion. I am overqualified to be apart of any discussion related to Netflix, content, studios, cable, Netflix execs, contracts, ongoing negotiations, stock deception, bandwidth caps, international expansion or anything else that could ever be talked about on this forum.

There is no question on my thoughts about Netflix and what I see going on there. This is more to me then if I can stream some crap for $8 bucks. So if I am offending either of the jokes that like to pretend they are only here because they are fans of netflix really means nothing to me because I know what they are both about. There is a reason why they spend all day everyday hawking this website.

Lonny

Mike,

Are there issues with taking up the subjects that the likes of Jolly and Johnson like to point out? It seems to me that alot of the stuff they copy and paste comes from the many writers at Seeking Alpha (one in particular) that enjoy slamming everything Netflix in what i think is a deliberate attempt to influence the price of the stock. Most of the topics you bring up (including the one i suggested) are pretty Vanilla.

I would love to see BP, and Tester go toe to toe with these guys to debate the issues brought forth rather than seeing any of them get banned. Jolly is a pain in the ass, but I think because he is largely ignored by us common folk that don't have the writing skills or the vocabulary to hang with him in a debate. If you opened the discussion and kept it open for continued debate i think this site would alot more interesting. Jolly should be able make his lame arguments why Netflix sucks rather going off topic and everyone getting pissed of at him, and we will have an opportunity to say why Netflix is great without having to go off topic along with him.

I am not sure if you are aware of it Mike, but this is really the only site where you can make an argument pro or con regarding Netflix on a regular basis without having to give out your email address to an organization you KNOW is going to spam the hell out of you.

@BP and Tester, I agree with you guys that the likes of Jolly/Johnson/BP108 are a pain in the ass but not so much for what they post but how they post it. I am up for a good argument about the merits of Netflix as a company in the proper forum. You are are far more eloquent than I am. I enjoy reading what you guys have to say in response. Mrmanmac

mikek

Tester, I called you out because of the language and way you responded to Jolly. The arguments have been escalating to the point where the comments are just personal attacks, not a pro/con discussion of Netflix. You've been a loyal reader and participant, and I was shocked by your response to Jolly (which I deleted).

Jolly, stop baiting people. In between stirring up the hornet's nest you have posted some interesting things and had some interesting commentary on Netflix. Don't copy huge blocks of text from another site. If you have a topic, email me from a throw-away email address if you don't want me to know who you are. Personally attacking people will get you banned permanently by IP address.

I would ask everyone to knock off the personal attacks. Take a step back, and put things in perspective. Take a break from the site, if needed.

I know from personal experience on this site that things can fester over time, and I know all too well how all of you feel.

Please, have a spirited discussion. The last thing I want to do is interfere in the discussion, but when things get so out of hand I have to step in.

- Mike

P.S. "According to recent studies, arguing on the internet is now the second most popular leisure activity in the world, just below shopping and just above sex." http://www.metafilter.com/103714/Blogmanship

Tester

Sorry Mike but you have my take on it. Once again you appear to be bending over backwards to appease Jolly. How many times do you have to repeat something to him before it's enough.

You say you called me out because of how I responded to Jolly, but why hasn't Jolly been called out as quickly, considering the many, many times he has said similar things.

Jolly makes post after post denigrating others including myself. This goes on for months. You step in but only every so often. I ignore the bull that Jolly throws for quite a long time. I finally can't take anymore and lash out. You then are very quick to talk about banning me. You don't wait, as you waited with Jolly. You throw the gauntlet down the same day I posted it. I know you said you received complaints about what I said but you have also received complaints about Jolly and have not acted on them as quickly as you did in my case.

HOW MANY TIMES DOES HE HAVE TO HIJACK A THREAD, SEE HIS LATEST, (Have you Experienced a Lost Netflix DVD Recently?) BEFORE ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?

WHAT IN HELL DOES HE HAVE ON YOU THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO KEEP UP HIS CRAP AND HAVE YOU IGNORE IT 99% OF THE TIME??

Tester

Lonny:

Thanks for the vote of confidence as far as debating. I have always been up for a good debate but find the likes of Jolly to be impossible to debate with.

People like Jolly, when they see they cannot respond with viable arguments to refute what others say, always resort to personal attacks in hopes of derailing the subject matter at hand.

Johnson1965Tony

Seriously???? Get over yourself.

Tester

Hey Mike, The following quote was put up by Jolly.

"As far as my credentials they are inconsequencial with names like tester and BP I do not feel obligated to disclose any informtion. I am overqualified to be apart of any discussion related to Netflix, content, studios, cable, Netflix execs, contracts, ongoing negotiations, stock deception, bandwidth caps, international expansion or anything else that could ever be talked about on this forum."

Why in the world would you want someone on Hacking Netflix who thinks he's is better than the rest of us?

Johnson1965Tony

You just can't stop can you?

Johnson1965Tony

I'll take the bait though. I don't think I'm better then anybody.

I just think I'm qualified to enter discussions about Netflix without taking shit from you.

Tester

Jolly:

"... I don't think I'm better then anybody.

I just think I'm qualified to enter discussions about Netflix without taking shit from you."

Since you said this in a civil manner I will respond the same way.

If what you said in your last post (part of it quoted above) why did you say what you said previously (see my previous post to Mike)?

BP

Ha ha ha. I'm fairly sure that as a fellow reddit user you weren't actually shocked by what Tester said, Mike. It might have caught you off guard, but I highly doubt it actually shocked you. Come on, man, try and tell me you haven't been tricked by a fake link to tubgirl once or twice. Try it. Oh how I wish I could claim I haven't had that experience. :(

Still, I said I'd leave if Jolly was allowed to persist. It was an ultimatum before, now it's the truth. I've been a part of, and been witness to, far more communities falling apart due to bad moderation than I'd like to admit. I really don't get why you're choosing to make Hacking Netflix one of them, but hey, that's your prerogative.

"Not my chair, not my problem."

Last thing, and this is a pet peeve of mine, it's dangerous to assume that because a debate gets heated or personal attacks fly that a person is upset. You diminish the importance of what they are saying by dismissing the actual context behind why they are saying it. Some guy tries to steal my car, you'll see me mad. Some guy on a website I enjoy is being a jerkass, you'll see me enjoy responding at length. Because I enjoy writing, it's a part of what I do, and engaging in, er, lofty(?) intellectual games is every bit as much fun as mowing down Hare Krishnas in Grand Theft Auto. More, even, because I like to picture that I'm the driver, my words are my car, and I'm repeatedly running down stupid people during a high scoring Kill Frenzy.

So, yeah, I know what I'll be doing instead of writing on Hacking Netflix now... and that is, err, running over pedestrians in my van? Wait, something's not right, what the...

Later.

-BP

Tester

BP:
Hope you're still here, Did you get my email?

Johnson1965Tony

To defend myself from inscesent whinners like yourself who continue to try and discredit anything I say everytime I post.

You threaten that your going to leave and like I said go trust me your constant complaints/ whines won't be missed. I care less about that (you going) then I care about answering your stupid leading questions that your asking to try and discredit me once again. Get some help guy this stuffs not as important as you are making it out to be.

Now write 10 more post complaining about that why don't you.

Tester

Mike, I hope you see that the shit from Jolly just won't stop. Even when I ask a question in a civil way I get crap from him.

I hope you and Jolly will be very happy together while flushing Hacking Netflix down the toilet.

Johnson1965Tony

The above comment was addressing Testers questions for me on the previous page but I guess it could go for BP to. If your truely leaving BP I'm not going to miss you. Problem is I've heard this from you before and your still here. I've heard the same thing from tester but he's still going with the attacks which is why I responded like I did above. I'm pretty much done responding to both of you and I would like to get back to commenting on Netflix.

Johnson1965Tony

Two for Two
Alright finially some peace and quiet. Mike what would you like to discuss?

Anybody else get the feeling that they'll be back?

Hello?

Is anybody there?

J/K

Knaldskalle

Game Over: Trolls win.

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